Old 04-17-2017, 12:29 PM   #1
Seroster
Chris Camfield
 
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Default Canadian-made Valentines - field trial reports etc

Ok, on to some more specific questions which, on the other hand, are pretty obscure.

I've been trying to dig into the history of the technical development of the Canadian-made Valentine tanks which as you probably know mostly went to Russia under Lend-Lease.

(1) In Design Record, Canadian-Developed Military Vehicles, World War II there are references, for instance, to snow trials - which took place in northern Ontario and in Manitoba - and design modifications. Does anyone have any suggestions on where to look for the original reports at LAC?

I've looked at Service Publications' Making Tracks but it doesn't have the information I'm after.

Last week I looked at a couple of files[1] at LAC but it seems like maybe this was all happening at a lower level that didn't require communication with the British.

(2) The entry on the Valentine in Design Record has reference to a few files which of course are from some old filing system. Does anyone have any ideas on how to go about locating them now, if they still exist?

"Files Series
D.M.S. - 73-4-1, 2, 3, 4 etc
D.N.D. - H.Q.S. 3352-1
D.M.S. - D.A.D. Photo Files Nos T-1,T-2"



[1] I looked at TANK DESIGN - Progress Reports & Field Trials Reports, by Cdn OME Liaison Offr Tk Design Dept, and Directorate of Tk Design - Dec 40/Mar 43. - (30-11-2/CAC) 1940/12-1943/03. File. RG24-G-3-1-a. Volume/box number: 10458 and at Progress report DTD to DOS [Director of Tank Design to Director of Ordnance Services] - Correspondence. 1942/04-1945/04. File. RG24-C-2. Volume/box number: 9360.
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Old 04-17-2017, 01:53 PM   #2
Temujin
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Originally Posted by Seroster View Post
Ok, on to some more specific questions which, on the other hand, are pretty obscure.

I've been trying to dig into the history of the technical development of the Canadian-made Valentine tanks which as you probably know mostly went to Russia under Lend-Lease.

(1) In Design Record, Canadian-Developed Military Vehicles, World War II there are references, for instance, to snow trials - which took place in northern Ontario and in Manitoba - and design modifications. Does anyone have any suggestions on where to look for the original reports at LAC?

I've looked at Service Publications' Making Tracks but it doesn't have the information I'm after.

Last week I looked at a couple of files[1] at LAC but it seems like maybe this was all happening at a lower level that didn't require communication with the British.

(2) The entry on the Valentine in Design Record has reference to a few files which of course are from some old filing system. Does anyone have any ideas on how to go about locating them now, if they still exist?

"Files Series
D.M.S. - 73-4-1, 2, 3, 4 etc
D.N.D. - H.Q.S. 3352-1
D.M.S. - D.A.D. Photo Files Nos T-1,T-2"



[1] I looked at TANK DESIGN - Progress Reports & Field Trials Reports, by Cdn OME Liaison Offr Tk Design Dept, and Directorate of Tk Design - Dec 40/Mar 43. - (30-11-2/CAC) 1940/12-1943/03. File. RG24-G-3-1-a. Volume/box number: 10458 and at Progress report DTD to DOS [Director of Tank Design to Director of Ordnance Services] - Correspondence. 1942/04-1945/04. File. RG24-C-2. Volume/box number: 9360.
You didn't tell us exactly what your looking for, so again I would suggest LAC, Brit National Archives, and the US Archives (you'd be surprised how many documents the US Archives have of Allied forces

Not sure if you have seen this document, but it lists all the reference documents to various vehicles, including the Valentine Tank.

http://publications.gc.ca/collection...8-1950-eng.pdf
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Old 04-17-2017, 02:08 PM   #3
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Here are the Valentine references (first 28) in the document I posted above.

Most, if not all of these documents are probably at LAC



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Old 04-17-2017, 02:13 PM   #4
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Hi Temujin,

My initial question could be rephrased as "does anyone have LAC search tips, or has anyone already looked this information up?". However LAC reindexed the files - I assume they now have them - it doesn't necessarily always contain the original file reference, I guess. For instance, I tried searching for "73-4-1" but that got me nowhere.

Thank you VERY much for the document! I am guessing this is the source of the quote (used in Making Tracks) about the very slow work progress at the Angus yards at building tanks. I'm hoping I will be able to use those references to track down something.

P.S. Do you have any idea what HQS means in this context?
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Old 04-17-2017, 02:14 PM   #5
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LAC - 54 photos and documents on file

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/l...=-1&MaxDocs=-1
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Old 04-17-2017, 02:21 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Seroster View Post
Hi Temujin,

My initial question could be rephrased as "does anyone have LAC search tips, or has anyone already looked this information up?". However LAC reindexed the files - I assume they now have them - it doesn't necessarily always contain the original file reference, I guess. For instance, I tried searching for "73-4-1" but that got me nowhere.

Thank you VERY much for the document! I am guessing this is the source of the quote (used in Making Tracks) about the very slow work progress at the Angus yards at building tanks. I'm hoping I will be able to use those references to track down something.

P.S. Do you have any idea what HQS means in this context?
Let me check on the abbreviation, I think HQS means "Headquarters Supply"
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Old 04-17-2017, 02:34 PM   #7
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Let me check on the abbreviation, I think HQS means "Headquarters Supply"
Here it is:

HQS (No) - Distinguishing letters on files of National Defence Headquarters (Army), Ottawa

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/o...909.007a-e.pdf
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Old 04-17-2017, 02:37 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Temujin View Post
LAC - 54 photos and documents on file

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/l...=-1&MaxDocs=-1
54 photographs (although some are the same photos labelled in French). No documents.

Please give me a little credit. If the information had been filed under "Valentine" I would have found it by now :)
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Old 04-17-2017, 02:38 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Temujin View Post
Here it is:

HQS (No) - Distinguishing letters on files of National Defence Headquarters (Army), Ottawa

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/o...909.007a-e.pdf
Ahh, thank you!!
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Old 04-18-2017, 10:11 AM   #10
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Temujin, wanted to say thank you. Because of your suggestion, last night I tried searching the British National Archives and found some of the documents I was looking for - Field Reports related to alterations to the Valentine tank, e.g. tracks for driving in snow, described as "snow shoes" in the UK archives!

And once I got it into my head that these files might be in different places, I searched for "cold weather test" at LAC and found what I was looking for there too.

That was enormously helpful!!
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